's the one that's most beneficial for our economy. >> reporter: larry, what i would say is tax increases does not necessarily, despite the rhetoric on both sides, and especially from democrats, does not necessarily have to mean increases in tax rates. it is possible, if you look at the estate tax, if you look at the treatment of dividends, capital gains and carried interest and take a look at loopholes and deductions to raise a significant amount of revenue from people at the top without changing the marginal rate, layery. >> very interesting. we're going to have senator tom coburn on that very subject later in the show. many thanks to john harwood coming from washington, d.c. now, with everyone in washington talking tax hikes, whatever happened to spending cuts? that's really my question. spending cuts and limited government and private sector free enterprise and growth. here now is cnbc contributor and democratic vat gist keith boykin, a former clinton white house aide and best selling author and talk show host larry elder, out with a new took, "dear father, dear son." larry already the sho

trying to ruin the holidays and the economy for everybody? >> first up this evening tonight fed chairman ben bernanke gave a warning fix the fiscal cliff or we are headed for a severe recession, so far, no concrete proposals and i have to ask again, are we headed for a stalemate or can we find an economy saving common ground. let's talk. we have abigail disney. we'll have a sudden fiscal cliff? >> i worry about the damage that mighting done in fixing it. you don't think the tax increases that could come at the end of the year and the spending cuts of less 100 build, you don't think those would in deuce a severe recession and everybody on wastreet? >> they are not that big of rate increases so far. welcome to the show and what would you do about it? >> they are proposing letting the bush tax cuts stand for everyone because the top 2%. if you raise them and closing the interest loop hole, fixing the estate tax you come out to $100 trillion in savings. >> serious question, you have a famous name and we welcome you onto the program. do you record that as rich? >> what i regard is irrelevant

of all, interest rates are low because we have had a weak economy. as far as the debt goes, listen to dean, i'm sure that he believes that the only real problem phafacing the country a the capitol gains. i think we do have a debt problem i think we have a big debt problem. the numbers in the 20s, 30s, look horrifying and we have a huge job and growth problem. i don't understand how taking dividends from 15-43 creates jobs that closes that. >> i don't see spending cuts. it won't matter. the economy collapsed and the housing bubble collapsed. make them pay zero taxes. the search goes inside out. none of it finds that it will create any of those jobs. the government has no choice. >> that is quite an experiment. that you are willing to run with 1 or 2%. from 15 to 25. we are going to taking it from 15 to 30. >> we have been there. >> you are taking the rate on capital which we have the world's highest rate on capital. and you are poi inggoing to mak higher? i would love to see spending reductions. the house and the senate rotes for $1.2 trillion spending cut. that spending cut would b

there will also be a drag on the american economy if our budget deficit widens out forever, if we're irresponsible and governor doesn't work. left with those four choices, think think -- on the flip side, did republicans ask you to spend any nuts -- i think at this point both sides have acknowledged that there's going to be revenue concessions and entertainment concessions. in fact, if you listen to, it again, i'm not a master of the political art here, i'm in washington but i would say if you had these points of views in a business context, as close as they are, i would say a deal would be in reach. >> you see some fundamental level of optimism from lloyd blankfine but a long way to go with the combination of prief pressure and public pressure, like the president is going to exert before we actually go to the flight of fired. i asked the treasury secretary should the president return to wall street. he it must be someone who understands markets, marry. >> me have 33 days to -- head of all pi he told john harwood. marge i will hates have to go up somewhat. he said that's going to put a drag on the

on the top 2% of households and it's not going to hurt the economy one bit. >> oh, that part i won't -- >> it's got to be part of the deal. >> that's part of the deal. >> before you answer that, art, i want to say, a second issue. let's put it right on table since jared opened up. many people believe since the president's budget want $1.6 trillion -- $1.6 trillion, of revenues, over ten years. >> over the next ten years, to be clear. >> next ten years. he will wish to raise the top tax rates. that includes income taxes, cap gains, dividends and estate taxes. and art laffer, he will also wish to curb deductions so he will raise tax revenues as well as tax rates and art, that sets the stage for a stalemate politically. what does it do economically also? >> well, it does set the stage politically. by not doing anything, all the tax rates go up on everyone. that's for sure. so, the question is, the republicans will pass a bill that extends all the tax cuts. i mean, that they will go along with no problem. they won't go along with a double wammy and they shouldn't. this is obama's economy. this is

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